Podcast: Death, Sex & Money

Ten years ago, Chaz Ebert talked to us about grief and loss as she was mourning the 2013 death of her husband, movie critic Roger Ebert. Her deep sense of connection to Roger continued after he was gone, including, she described, hearing his voice and feeling like they were still in conversation. When Chaz talked about this a decade ago, though, she was skittish about sharing too much about their ongoing communication, nervous that it would sound too out there.
No longer.
When we talked just a few weeks ago, Chaz described a lifetime of intuitive sensing, a skill she inherited from her mother. While her conversations with Roger have stopped, her intuition still powers much of what she does, including writing her new book, which she describes as “a download from the universe.” It’s called It’s Time to Give a FECK: Elevating Humanity through Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion and Kindness.
This week, we listen back to our original conversation with Chaz and hear what has shifted in the ten years since.
Podcast production by Andrew Dunn.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
Come out for a LIVE Death, Sex & Money show at SF Sketchfest, San Francisco’s comedy and improv festival, on January 31. Get your tickets here.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
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On election night, while many voters across the country were focused on who would win the presidency, a growing number of Americans were watching the returns with another question in mind: will I win or lose money? That’s because, just weeks before November 5th, a judge ruled that for the first time in almost a century Americans could bet large amounts of money on the outcome of political races.
In this episode, we talk to two people who made big bets: Mike, a Latino Democrat who bet $10,000 on Kamala Harris winning, and Jordan, a white conservative Trump supporter who risked $60,000 on Trump's victory. And Slate’s business and tech reporter Nitish Pahwa helps Anna understand the changing legal context for gambling in America.
Read Slate’s Nitish Pahwa's post on prediction markets and politics here.
Plus, we have new totebags for sale! Check them out.
Podcast production by Zoe Azulay
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Ad Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more.
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When actor and performer Jeff Hiller first tried improv comedy, he was instantly amazing at it. Jeff is an excellent listener. He’s also accommodating, flexible, and undeniably hilarious. This week on the show, Jeff discusses his role on the critically acclaimed HBO series Somebody, Somewhere and the personal quirks and qualities that have made him such a funny and talented performer.

Mentioned in the episode:
-Jeff’s conversation with his husband Neil on the podcast She’s a Talker.
-Anna’s interview with Mark Duplass.
-Death, Sex & Money will be at San Francisco’s Sketchfest on January 31st. Get tickets and info here!

Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
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When is it time to go no contact? In this episode, we talk to four listeners who have recently become estranged from loved ones.

This episode was originally aired in 2022, and is part of a three-part series on estrangement. You can listen to the other episodes here:
Estrangement Purgatory - Our episode about the contemplation stages of estrangement with a listener named Brian who is considering leaving his religious community.
Estrangement’s Alternate Endings - What does long term estrangement look like? And one listener’s choice to get back in touch.

Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Ad Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Therapist Lauren LaRusso has spent the past few years learning everything she can about infidelity–why people have affairs, how to cope with an unfaithful spouse, and how to move forward with or without your partner after a betrayal. And she’s been sharing this wisdom with her 100,000 followers on Instagram.
This week, Lauren explains why she approaches this topic with more curiosity than judgment, and she discusses the affair that happened in her own marriage that led her to become a trusted and invested authority on the matter.
Learn more about Lauren at laurenlarusso.com or on her Instagram page. She also writes at laurenlarusso.substack.com.
This episode references the song Next Lifetime by Erykah Badu.
Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
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In 2021, we released an episode called The Weight of Love, where listeners shared stories about weight, body size, and how those factors affect their romantic relationships. Fast-forward to 2024, and weight loss drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy have complicated these issues even further.
This week, listeners share stories and questions about dating, romance, sex, and self-love in the Ozempic era, and we’ve assembled a panel of experts to respond. Ronald Young Jr. is the host of Weight For It, a podcast about the conversations that we tend to avoid when it comes to our bodies. Anna Holmes wrote about her experience with the weight loss drug Mounjaro for Slate (and she is also executive producer for the exciting new podcast, The Wonder of Stevie). Jill Lewis is a body-positive therapist based in Atlanta. You can follow her on Instagram @jlewistherapy.
Podcast production by Zoe Azulay and Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Ad Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From an early age, Alynda Segarra saw the people they loved grind it out in an American system that offered them little reward. Their father, a musician and Vietnam War veteran, suffered from PTSD, and their aunt and uncle, with whom they lived, were stretched beyond their means. Alynda decided they would take a different path: drop out of school, hop trains, and form a band. "I just thought I should take a bunch of risks in [my family's] honor," Alynda told Anna.
In 2024, Hurray for the Riff Raff released their ninth album, The Past Is Still Alive, and it explores that early period of risk-taking and leaving home. In this episode, Alynda talks to Anna about how writing the album, plus the recent death of their father, made them reconsider family dynamics, joy, and what it means to be free.
You can read their newsletter, Resist Psychic Death, here. There’s a playlist of the songs in our episode here.
Podcast production by Zoe Azulay
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, author and podcaster Kendra Adachi explains how she took perfectionism and strict time-management way too far and was forced to radically change her ways. Her new book is called The Plan: Manage Your Time Like a Lazy Genius, and it aims to be what most time-management books aren’t: flexible, kind, and applicable to people with busy schedules and loved ones to care for.
To learn more about Kendra’s 13 Lazy Genius principles, check out this episode of her podcast: 13 Principles That Will Change Your Life Forever.
Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Find us and follow us on Instagram, and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Want more Death, Sex & Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Death, Sex & Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/dsmplus to get access wherever you listen.
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When he was 11 years old, actor Haley Joel Osment was nominated for an Oscar. His resume was already long and impressive, but his role as Cole Sear in M. Night Shyamalan’s psychological thriller The Sixth Sense cemented him as an acting prodigy and a big star. Money, fame, and accolades rapidly flew in his direction.
But Osment managed to avoid a lot of the common hurdles that early fame can bring. This week, he talks to Anna Sale about the many factors that led to his relatively smooth child star experience and his continued positive outlook in an industry that can be cruel and unpredictable.
Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Ad Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anna talks to PJ Vogt, host of the podcast Search Engine, about his distinct writing and interviewing style. Then we share one of our favorite episodes of Search Engine, which poses the question: When do you know it's time to stop drinking? In that episode, you'll hear PJ talk to A.J. Daulerio, who writes a newsletter and hosts a podcast about recovery called The Small Bow. He also writes an addiction advice column for Slate called Ask A.J.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One day on his morning Uber route, Jason Armstrong got an email from his father. The message: at 85, he'd decided to end his life by stopping eating and drinking. Jason's first reaction? This was the "ultimate act of narcissism." But over the next few months, as Jason witnessed his dad's careful preparations, his perspective shifted. In this episode, Jason talks to Anna about processing his father's choice - from panic attacks on morning walks to a poignant final night sharing tiny sips of favorite drinks, and opens up about grappling with love, tenderness, and what it means to honor a parent's wishes, even when they're hard to accept.
Podcast production by Zoe Azulay
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.

Public.com Ad Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Elizabeth* has a secret life as a hoarder. None of her colleagues or family members know that her apartment is filled to the brim with garbage bags, discarded hobbies and beautiful writing paper. Instead, she hosts an anonymous podcast detailing her struggles and efforts to declutter. In this episode, she talks to Anna about her complicated relationship with objects, how it relates to money anxiety and sexual identity, and how she’s trying to be more honest with people in her life.
* Elizabeth is a pseudonym. Her podcast is called, That Hoarder: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding.
Also this week, a listener asked for recommendations on how to rekindle old friendships. Have thoughts? Send them to deathsexmoney@slate.com. Here are some links to episodes, and Slate advice, on friendship.

Opportunity Costs: Friendship and Fertility

Books We Love: A Big Conversation About “Big Friendship”

Between Friends: Stories About Race and Friendship

Advice Week: Friendship Edition

Podcast production by Zoe Azulay
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you lived in Columbus, Georgia in the 90s, you might remember a queer club called Sensations. But Bob the Drag Queen knew Sensations by day, not night – she was in elementary school when her mom owned the place. Bob eventually moved to New York City, and now, she’s an international stand-up comedian and drag star.
In this episode, Bob talks to Anna about turning her big ideas into iconic side hustles, trying to move her family into a bigger home, and supporting and collaborating with queer and trans people in small U.S. towns as a co-host of the HBO reality show Elsewhere.
Podcast production by Afi Yellow-Duke and Lilly Clark in 2021.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Martha Wainwright was born into a world of music and folk fame, with songwriter parents Loudon Wainwright III and Kate McGarrigle and brother Rufus. In this episode, Martha opens up about love and jealousy, the profound impact of losing her mother to cancer, and how she discovered new sexiness following her divorce.
Martha Wainwright’s memoir is called Stories I Might Regret Telling You. You can listen to a playlist of songs featured in the episode on Apple Music or Spotify.
Podcast production by Andrew Dunn
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After Cody Delistraty’s mom died in his early 20s he decided to turn his grief into a research project with one central question: can grief be cured? In this episode, he talks to Anna about all of the various remedies he tried, what worked, and what lessons he learned along the way.
Cody’s book is called The Grief Cure: Looking For the End of Loss
Looking for more episodes on grief and longing? Here are some from our archive:

When Grief Doesn’t Move In Stages

An End of Life Doctor’s Shocking Loss

Cut Loose: Your Stories of Breaking Up

Podcast production by Andrew Dunn.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your stories about how navigating weight and body size inside a relationship has sometimes made your partnerships stronger…and sometimes broken them apart.
Since we originally recorded this episode in 2021, the way we talk about weight loss has changed with drugs like Ozempic. We want to hear more of your stories about weight and love especially if you’ve taken new weight loss medications. How has the experience impacted your close relationships? Record a voice memo or write us an email and send it to us at deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Climate activists Jess Serrante and Joanna Macy are 60 years apart. They’re also close friends who’ve been sharing stories and commiserating about the state of the world for the past 10 years. When Jess experienced a crisis and started questioning whether her activism was really effective, Joanna provided a framework that changed everything.
In this episode, Anna talks to Jess about what she’s learned from Joanna about aging, activism, and managing the emotional ups and downs of caring about the world.
You can listen to Jess and Joanna’s podcast, We Are the Great Turning, here or wherever you listen to podcasts. Artist Autumn Leiker is mentioned in the episode, and you can learn more about her work here.
Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Crystal met Hugh Hefner when she was 21 and he was 81. They spent 10 years together at the Playboy mansion before he died and she became a widow. In this episode she reflects on their marriage, and how she’s changed since.
Crystal Hefner’s memoir is called Only Say Good Things: Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself.
Podcast production by Zoe Azulay
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Miranda July entered her early forties, she noticed a grim feeling emerge. “It wasn't coming from me,” she said, “I guess it came from this lack of imagery, or stories, or even just basic medical information about what was going to happen next with my body.” The dearth of information and near absence of cultural mythology about perimenopause and menopause became the catalyst for her novel All Fours, which came out in May and quickly became a New York Times bestseller.
In this episode, Miranda talks about the unease that inspired the book and speculates about what the future could look like if more people openly discussed this crucial chapter of life. We also hear from listeners who share their experiences with perimenopause and menopause.
The interview with Miranda was recorded live in San Francisco for City Arts & Lectures.
You can check out a great profile of Miranda, which is referenced in the episode, here:  https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/miranda-july-profile
Podcast production by Cameron Drews.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram, and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, or critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Angela first started working at a debt collection agency, she says she barely understood what her job was. "I was so completely awestruck that people didn't pay their bills," she told Anna in 2019, when this episode originally aired. Angela ended up working as a collector for 15 years, working her way up and getting monthly bonuses for getting people to pay up. But then, in 2018, she was accused of being part of a scheme to collect debt in unlawful ways, and was banned from the industry for life. Soon after she started racking up debt of her own, and got calls from bill collectors. At first, she said, she would pick up the phone when collectors called, just to critique them. "Now I just block the number and move on," she said. "I will eventually get them paid off and until I can, there is no point in wasting their time."
Podcast production by Katie Bishop in 2019.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices